[Oct. 17 Seattle] On the route
Phil West
phil_west at comcast.net
Wed Aug 26 16:58:30 EDT 2009
I just obtained the necessary forms from the City of Seattle Special
Events office. I will fill them out and get them ready for submission.
Phil
Helen wrote:
> I'm fine with this also. Thanks Anton.
>
> --Helen
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Anton Black wrote:
>
>> This looks good to me also. I didn't see agreement when I replied
>> on the permit thread but this might do it. Where exactly turnoff
>> from 1st to go to Westlake?--Anton
>>
>> http://vvawai.org http://vfp92.org http://antonblack.blogspot.com/
>>
>> --- ejrd1993 at hotmail.com <mailto:ejrd1993 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Eric Gordan <ejrd1993 at hotmail.com <mailto:ejrd1993 at hotmail.com>>
>> To: anntiwar <antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [Oct. 17 Seattle] On the route
>> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:36:06 -0700
>>
>> I'm fine with what is being suggested: skip 12th, since it doesn't
>> gain us much but it adds distance; skip the detour through the
>> projects; go to Jackson instead of Yessler, since that does gain us
>> more of the ID; and ending at Westlake (Edward didn't weigh in on
>> it, I'd like to hear what he and others think). Without the other
>> detours, ending at Westlake seems fine to me. That lets us pass a
>> couple of blocks past the Market, which Anton and I agreed was a good
>> detour to take, and which now Frank has also supported as well.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:48:49 +0000
>> From: chr2eemail at comcast.net <mailto:chr2eemail at comcast.net>
>> To: antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Oct. 17 Seattle] On the route
>>
>> I favor Jackson because of the good responses we've recently been
>> getting in the International District, plus Yesler will have many
>> fewer people on it during the stretch that's raised for the freeway,
>> etc. It also gives the march a clear/comprehensible goal as far as
>> to why we're going in this direction.
>>
>> For these reasons I think it's worth the extra 15 minutes, or so.--Fk.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: iskra at riseup.net <mailto:iskra at riseup.net>
>>
>> To: antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>
>>
>> Sent: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:27:09 +0000 (UTC)
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Oct. 17 Seattle] On the route
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. I agree with not trying to cram too much into one march (re: Ben's
>>
>> suggestion), although Broadway is an excellent place to march. I am
>>
>> also against going in circles or zigzagging all over the place. I
>>
>> didn't see any real advantage to looping up to 12th. If we want to
>>
>> march on 12th AND go through Yesler Terrace (the previously mentioned
>>
>> projects), then we will have to march up a fairly steep slope for 2-3
>>
>> blocks, plus the 2 blocks up Pike or Pine. I think this is way too much
>>
>> work and complication for way too little.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. Since it is apparently only a half mile difference, a relatively
>>
>> straight shot (with the exception of Yesler Terrace) from SCCC to either
>>
>> Jackson or Yesler would be fine with me. I would like to hear what
>>
>> others had to say about this (Jackson vs. Yesler), because I can really
>>
>> be swayed either way. I don't think this is a matter of major political
>>
>> significance, as much as I'd like us to cover part of the International
>>
>> District.
>>
>>
>>
>> A half mile seems like more than a half mile after walking 2.5. Again,
>>
>> there's no need to cram it all into one march. Of course, one way to
>>
>> ease the burden would be to avoid zigzagging up hills for slightly
>>
>> increased visibility for a block or so (like we had discussed on Monday
>>
>> around the juvenile detention place on 12th). Both Yesler and Jackson
>>
>> will be downhill. And again, I could go either way.
>>
>>
>>
>> --Edward
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> chr2eemail at comcast.net <mailto:chr2eemail at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Helen,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > When I said that the various choices all seemed pretty good, I think
>>
>> > that my note was pretty clearly referring to choices in how to get to
>>
>> > Jackson.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Indeed, I think that most people in the meeting thought that there
>> would
>>
>> > be a few blocks of relative emptiness on Broadway when going past
>> S.U.,
>>
>> > Swedish, etc., so we should check out how it would be to go over to
>>
>> > 12^th instead^ ---which you have now done! But at the same time
>> there is
>>
>> > only relative emptiness on this part of Broadway, and we would no
>> doubt
>>
>> > meet some hospital workers, students, and people who live in
>> apartments
>>
>> > in the area. So, to me, whatever you decide won’t be bad if it doesn‘t
>>
>> > involve a lot of loops and the like.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Some things related to this:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I think that we’re going to want an MC---or someone tasked for the
>>
>> > duty---to very briefly explain the general march route, and say that
>>
>> > it’s a little longer than usual because in order to build the
>> movement,
>>
>> > going to the people is necessary. (At the same time, at the first
>>
>> > meeting we recognized that some people simply can’t walk three miles,
>>
>> > but that the shape of the route is such that they can jump on buses or
>>
>> > otherwise take shortcuts in order to meet us at the end.)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > But I think that it would be a mistake to have a march route with too
>>
>> > many detours designed to go to the people. Quite a few demonstrators
>>
>> > might feel they’re being led in circles when they have in mind
>> reaching
>>
>> > the objective of Westlake. Compromises have to be made in this regard.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > For example, Ben’s (and perhaps others’) idea of first marching
>> north on
>>
>> > Broadway has merit in that it’s meant to reach more people. But it
>>
>> > starts off with this problem of marching in a circle. (In this case, I
>>
>> > also think that it would make the march just a little too long.) So I
>>
>> > think that we should “save” north Broadway for another demonstration.
>>
>> > Nevertheless, I think that it would be great if on the 17^th Ben or
>>
>> > others wanted to organize a little contingent with signs, etc., to
>> come
>>
>> > down Broadway encouraging people to come with them to the
>> demonstration.
>>
>> > I might join such a contingent myself!
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: Helen
>>
>> >
>>
>> > To: antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Sent: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:49:10 +0000 (UTC)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Oct. 17 Seattle] On the route
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Frank and All:
>>
>> > I am confused when you say "the various choices. . . all seem pretty
>>
>> > good." Does this mean so long as it goes from SCCC to Jackson, and up
>>
>> > First to Westlake? Or all three maps?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > The feeling on monday's walk was that it was long when we were in the
>>
>> > middle of it, but as the original note said "we can of course discuss
>>
>> > this further, but this was the general consensus." The discussion
>>
>> > really wasn't much about feeling tired; there were practical and
>>
>> > political reasons for concluding the original route might be too long
>>
>> > and may disserve the action. What we kept tossing around is, what
>> does
>>
>> > this struggle need, in the current situation? So it was pretty
>> interesting.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > At this point, four of us felt it was probably too long, made
>> alternate
>>
>> > suggestions, and no one of the four has voiced a clear change of
>>
>> > opinion, at least in email. But when you encourage "you all doing the
>>
>> > walking" to decide, you seem to be taking it for granted that we
>> will be
>>
>> > going to Jackson, and towards the market, and presumably to
>>
>> > Westlake--other than that it is up to us. I could be wrong about
>> how I
>>
>> > am reading your email, not sure.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I would like to hear what the others who were out on Monday think. If
>>
>> > others are convinced that plan A, map 1, is it, then there is no
>> need to
>>
>> > walk again. We might easily conclude that if we go with plan A,
>> any of
>>
>> > the side routes we considered are out, or something like that.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Frank, are you able to come on Thurs or Friday to walk it? I know we
>>
>> > don't want to drain our energies on the route issue, but that's why
>>
>> > having materials to pass out would be good also. The route s a
>>
>> > significant piece of this action, so it is worth a bit of effort.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --Helen
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > On Aug 20, 2009, at 1:29 AM, chr2eemail at comcast.net
>> <mailto:chr2eemail at comcast.net>
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Dear Alex and all,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > You say that the four of you didn’t consense on a shorter route,
>>
>> > which is obviously fine with me. Yet all I and the rest of us
>> had to
>>
>> > go on was Helen’s report that you all “concluded that SCCC via 12th
>>
>> > or Broadway to Jackson, to First, and up Pine to Westlake is too
>>
>> > far,” i.e., the general route that everyone agreed on (and
>> which has
>>
>> > been advertised) is too far.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > In fact, most of her short note dealt with length. So it’s just
>>
>> > plain logical that I would have addressed this.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > But, anyway, I thought that the reason for walking part of the
>> route
>>
>> > was simply to check out what would be the best way to get to
>>
>> > Jackson. And I’m most willing to accept whatever you recommend on
>>
>> > this, as I think others at the meeting were. (I would add that it’s
>>
>> > important to remember that Yesler Terrace is likely to have many
>>
>> > fewer people outside in mid-October than it does in summer days
>> like
>>
>> > this.)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Insofar as making a jog over to Hing Hay Park for a speech or
>>
>> > speeches, I pretty much oppose this because it might create
>> somewhat
>>
>> > of a “tour with speeches” atmosphere, rather than that of a
>> militant
>>
>> > anti-war demonstration on a mission. On the other hand, I do like
>>
>> > Anton ‘s idea of going a block or two past the Market entrance
>>
>> > before cutting over to Westlake---which is also what I originally
>>
>> > had in mind.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Ben Seattle has suggested first marching north on Broadway, which
>>
>> > creates the problem of whether to return south on a not-so-busy
>>
>> > street like 12^th , or just to turn around on Broadway. My opinion
>>
>> > is that we can’t do everything in one demonstration; and I think
>>
>> > that it’s important to remember that by October 17 the people who
>>
>> > walk Broadway every day will be very aware that there’s going to be
>>
>> > a demonstration. Furthermore, on demonstration day there will be
>>
>> > people coming down Broadway from the north w/ signs, etc., and
>>
>> > they’ll therefore be reminded again.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > So I think that we should keep things simple, leave it to you all
>>
>> > doing the walking to decide the best way to Jackson, even if it
>>
>> > involves flipping a coin. (And I don’t think that I’m being flip in
>>
>> > saying this because the various choices all have their ups and
>>
>> > downs, but all seem pretty good.)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Frank
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: Eric Gordan
>>
>> >
>>
>> > To: anntiwar
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Sent: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:41:47 +0000 (UTC)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Subject: [Oct. 17 Seattle] On the route
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> > Frank –
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> > Since we
>>
>> >
>>
>> > didn’t set anything in stone, it is hard to understand why you’re
>>
>> > angry. The four of us didn’t consense on a
>>
>> >
>>
>> > shorter route, and we didn’t consense on ending in Pioneer Square.
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> > After
>>
>> >
>>
>> > walking most of the route (stopping on First), we all felt that it
>>
>> > was a pretty
>>
>> >
>>
>> > rigorous route, and that rather than going all the way to Westlake,
>>
>> > one way to
>>
>> >
>>
>> > shorten it would be to end in Pioneer Square. What we agreed
>> to was
>>
>> > that if we do go all the way to Jackson,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > and especially if we march up to 12^th , the march could end at
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Pioneer Square, and we agreed that there were some advantages
>> to that
>>
>> >
>>
>> > option.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> > However,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > our minds were not primarily on the length of the march, but on
>>
>> > numerous other
>>
>> >
>>
>> > factors. We tried to give an
>>
>> >
>>
>> > indication of that by saying that those of us who went out that
>>
>> > night would
>>
>> >
>>
>> > send comments on the route options, but we fell down on doing
>> that.
>>
>> > Some particular points that the four of
>>
>> >
>>
>> > us discussed while we were scouting:
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> > 1) We
>>
>> >
>>
>> > walked from SCCC along Pike to 12^th , and along 12^th
>>
>> >
>>
>> > roughly to the Juvenile Hall.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Along Pike and the first part of 12th, there are several
>> open-air cafes,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > but all of them are pretty upscale.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > There are a few condo-type residences, and again they’re pretty
>>
>> >
>>
>> > upscale. The whole chunk of Pike
>>
>> >
>>
>> > between Broadway and 12^th , and around the corner onto 12^th
>>
>> >
>>
>> > also, has been real gentrified since the last time I really looked
>>
>> > at what was
>>
>> >
>>
>> > there.
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>> >
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>> >
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>> > 2) We
>>
>> >
>>
>> > discussed in depth whether there would be more people around along
>>
>> > SU at the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > time of the march, but when we were there the other day that
>> side of
>>
>> > campus was
>>
>> >
>>
>> > deserted. There are several shops
>>
>> >
>>
>> > that are designed for the student population there, and these
>> may be
>>
>> > populated
>>
>> >
>>
>> > on a Saturday, which would be good.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And of course, school will be in session then, so it is likely
>> to be
>>
>> >
>>
>> > more populous than the other night.
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 3) After
>>
>> >
>>
>> > passing SU by a few blocks, we cut up from 12^th to Broadway,
>> to get
>>
>> >
>>
>> > a view of what was there. Marching on 12^th all the way essentially
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to Jackson as we originally discussed would largely bypass the
>>
>> > housing project
>>
>> >
>>
>> > between Harborview and Yessler. It
>>
>> >
>>
>> > would catch one edge of it but not much more.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 4) We didn’t
>>
>> >
>>
>> > come to an agreement on the choice between 12^th and Broadway,
>> but we
>>
>> >
>>
>> > did agree that cutting through more of Yessler Terrace is
>>
>> > important. Going from memory, I think that meant
>>
>> >
>>
>> > cutting up Alder from 12^th , if we take that route, but it doesn’t
>>
>> >
>>
>> > matter much which of those streets we take. We discussed that going
>>
>> > up Cherry
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to Broadway was an option also.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> > 5) We all
>>
>> >
>>
>> > agreed that cutting west of Broadway on the jog that Anton pointed
>>
>> > out in his
>>
>> >
>>
>> > email was a really good thing, because it would take us through
>> more
>>
>> > of the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > projects.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 6) That jog
>>
>> >
>>
>> > would leave us at Yessler a couple of blocks west of Broadway. From
>>
>> > there, we
>>
>> >
>>
>> > debated whether to go right, down Yessler or left, to Jackson.
>>
>> > Going down Yessler to First is the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > shorter of the two options, and we agreed that if we took that
>>
>> > option, we would
>>
>> >
>>
>> > certainly want to end at Westlake.
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> > The other
>>
>> >
>>
>> > alternative of going down Jackson means turning left at Yessler,
>>
>> > going to
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Boren, to 12^th , to Jackson, and is a significant addition to the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > route. It has some significant
>>
>> >
>>
>> > advantages over the Yessler option, in that it travels through more
>>
>> > of the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Yessler Terrace projects, through little Saigon, and through a
>>
>> > significant
>>
>> >
>>
>> > chunk of the ID. I think we all
>>
>> >
>>
>> > agreed that these were important advantages. The Yessler route
>>
>> > misses all of little Saigon, and most of
>>
>> >
>>
>> > the ID.
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 7) In the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ID, we discussed the option of a one-block detour through Hing Hay
>>
>> > (sp?) park
>>
>> >
>>
>> > for a speech or two. From there,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > we’d travel down past the south end of the bus tunnel, and down to
>>
>> > First. However, Jackson to First beyond the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > bus tunnel isn’t going to be great for foot traffic. Anton has
>>
>> > since reported that there will be a game, but not
>>
>> >
>>
>> > til the evening. And First doesn’t
>>
>> >
>>
>> > get a lot of non-game foot-traffic until you get a few blocks
>>
>> > further north
>>
>> >
>>
>> > (though it does have good foot traffic a few blocks south of
>> Yessler).
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 8) If we did
>>
>> >
>>
>> > not go all the way to Westlake, our preferred ending point
>> would not be
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Occidental Park, but at the triangular park on First where the
>>
>> > pergola is.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 9) We all
>>
>> >
>>
>> > agreed that the route up First, and especially the march past the
>>
>> > market were
>>
>> >
>>
>> > big advantages to going all the way to Westlake. Anton and I
>> talked
>>
>> > about even going beyond Westlake on
>>
>> >
>>
>> > First, so we could run alongside the market for a couple more
>>
>> > blocks, and then
>>
>> >
>>
>> > looping back to Westlake.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > The main
>>
>> >
>>
>> > reason we considered ending sooner than Westlake was that we wanted
>>
>> > to be able
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to take a few detours that would lengthen the march. Twelfth is
>>
>> > one, into the projects to the west of Broadway is
>>
>> >
>>
>> > another, Hing Hay park is a third, and we might have talked about a
>>
>> > few others
>>
>> >
>>
>> > as well.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > The
>>
>> >
>>
>> > longest option is:
>>
>> >
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>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > SCCC
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --> Pike --> 12^th --> Cherry --> Broadway --> through
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Yessler Terrace --> Yessler --> Boren --> 12^th -->
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Jackson --> Hing Hay --> Jackson --> 1^st --> Stewart
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --> 4^th --> Westlake.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > That one
>>
>> >
>>
>> > is not outlined in any of the maps that I made and Helen sent out.
>>
>> > We agreed that that one was too long,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > but I imagine that some of us could be convinced otherwise. But at
>>
>> > this point, I am not entirely
>>
>> >
>>
>> > convinced by your arguments.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > We need
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to resolve this soon so we can start the permit process. One
>>
>> > proposal is that anyone who can meets
>>
>> >
>>
>> > at SCCC on Thursday or Friday evening, at 6 or 6:30, with flyers in
>>
>> > hand, and we walk the route again. Can you
>>
>> >
>>
>> > make it either of those times, Frank?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > What about other comrades?
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I cannot
>>
>> >
>>
>> > do it on Friday, but I can on Thursday.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > If we decide to do it Thursday, probably the communication
>> should be by
>>
>> >
>>
>> > phone.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Comrades,
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I
>>
>> >
>>
>> > don’t understand what is said on the maps, i.e., how is the route
>>
>> > ending at
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Westlake only 2.5 miles, and the one ending at Pioneer Square 3.0
>>
>> > miles? Then
>>
>> >
>>
>> > you have an alternative route to Pioneer Square that’s /longer/,
>>
>> > but it’s listed as only 2.6 miles!
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > So
>>
>> >
>>
>> > you must mean that the route ending at Westlake is 3.0 miles, which
>>
>> > I think is
>>
>> >
>>
>> > just right---maybe 1 hour 45 minutes at demonstration pace.
>> Nothing.
>>
>> > We say
>>
>> >
>>
>> > that we want to use demonstrations take our anti-war politics
>> to the
>>
>> > people,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > and this does it.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Some
>>
>> >
>>
>> > other points:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I
>>
>> >
>>
>> > think that ending at Westlake is better because it seems to be a
>>
>> > little more of
>>
>> >
>>
>> > a public place than Pioneer Square. Moreover, it allows us to march
>>
>> > by the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > crowded Market entrance, etc. Also, a lot of people will hike back
>>
>> > up the hill to
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Broadway after the event is over, and this will give us the
>>
>> > opportunity to walk
>>
>> >
>>
>> > with them. In fact, I was thinking that it would be good to give a
>>
>> > call for
>>
>> >
>>
>> > people to march back up the hill together during the ending rally.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Besides
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Seattle May Days and the DNC, I could add more demonstrations that
>>
>> > have been
>>
>> >
>>
>> > much longer than the one we all generally agreed on, i.e., /three/
>>
>> > marches from the U.W. all the way
>>
>> >
>>
>> > downtown in 1970, or a MLK Day march that went all the way from
>>
>> > Garfield High
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to Othello, or others. And every one of these marches was of
>>
>> > thousands. But you
>>
>> >
>>
>> > write that: “We will have less people participating in the march
>>
>> > if it is
>>
>> >
>>
>> > clearly too long,†when this is not /clear/ at all!
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Longer
>>
>> >
>>
>> > marches (and this one is really not that long) are a little more
>>
>> > dramatic and
>>
>> >
>>
>> > memorable, and we want this to be a memorable event. Further,
>> I’ve
>>
>> > told some
>>
>> >
>>
>> > people that we wanted this to be a demonstration that was short on
>>
>> >
>>
>> > speech-making and long on marching, and had agreement that it
>> should
>>
>> > be. And if
>>
>> >
>>
>> > we continue our political mobilization I don’t think we need
>> worry
>>
>> > about
>>
>> >
>>
>> > turning out enough people to fill the street. Anger against Obama
>>
>> > increases by
>>
>> >
>>
>> > the day, and we work to increase this anger. A three-mile anti-war
>>
>> >
>>
>> > demonstration is just the beginning.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Since
>>
>> >
>>
>> > four people have now consensed against our original plan,
>> I’ll add
>>
>> > one last
>>
>> >
>>
>> > thing: How many times have we heard the cry to “keep marching!â€
>>
>> > sent up
>>
>> >
>>
>> > when the usual coalition leaders stopped marches in order to
>> have an
>>
>> > hour of
>>
>> >
>>
>> > reformist speeches? Maybe it’s because I’m older, but I’ve
>>
>> > heard it a
>>
>> >
>>
>> > lot.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Sorry
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to go on and on, but I just don’t get this objection…can’t
>>
>> > fathom it, and
>>
>> >
>>
>> > it makes me angry. But I’m sure we’ll work it out.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Frank
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I don't
>>
>> >
>>
>> > agree that the original proposed route is too long. For example,
>>
>> > it's about half
>>
>> >
>>
>> > the length of the biggest march in Denver, and much shorter
>> than the
>>
>> > May Day
>>
>> >
>>
>> > marches from St. Mary's, downtown, and on to Seattle Center. More,
>>
>> > when you're
>>
>> >
>>
>> > walking in a crowd, shouting slogans and chants, etc., time
>> flies by
>>
>> > in comparison
>>
>> >
>>
>> > to when you're walking alone.—Fk
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Original Message -----
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: Helen
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
To: antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>
>>
Sent:
>>
>> > Tue, 18 Aug 2009 05:44:54 +0000
>>
>> >
>>
>> > (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Oct. 17 Seattle] Fwd: Import your contacts
>> and old
>>
>> >
>>
>> > email
Alex, Anton, Edwd and I walked variations of the
>> proposed route
>>
>> >
>>
>> > tonight.
We concluded that SCCC via 12th or Broadway to
>> Jackson, to
>>
>> > First, and
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
up Pine to Westlake is too far.
We will have less people
>>
>> > participating in the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > march if it is clearly
too long. People would likely decide to be
>>
>> > there at the
>>
>> >
>>
>> > beginning
and/or the end and the actual number marching would be
>>
>> > lower than we
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
want, possibly lower than we need to go into the street.
We
>> can of
>>
>> > course
>>
>> >
>>
>> > discuss this further, but this was the general
consensus
>> amongst of
>>
>> > the four
>>
>> >
>>
>> > of us.
Here are proposed routes. (Folks will argue pro and con in
>>
>> >
subsequent
>>
>> >
>>
>> > emails.)
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> > Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
>>
>> > Find out more.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>>
>> > antiwar mailing list
>>
>> > antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>
>>
>> > https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/antiwar
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>>
>> > antiwar mailing list
>>
>> > antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>
>>
>> > https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/antiwar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> antiwar mailing list
>>
>> antiwar at lists.hcoop.net <mailto:antiwar at lists.hcoop.net>
>>
>> https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/antiwar
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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