[Hcoop-discuss] Next hardware configuration/Email service

[Adam Chlipala]

Justin S. Leitgeb wrote:

>The high cost that I estimated for setting up multiple servers was 
>really what motivated me to ask about co-location before hardware or 
>specific configuration details.  I couldn't imagine the co-op coming up 
>with more than what would be needed for a single, solid 1U server.  
>Specifically I was thinking that we could build up from something like a 
>Dell Poweredge 1850, which is 1U and would set us back at least $3000 
>per unit with any kind of hardware RAID (this would give us RAID 1 with 
>2 300 GB disks, but only 1 CPU).
>  
>
There are two main classes of reasons why this could be feasible.

First, as Nathan suggested, some of us are more willing to spend money 
on HCoop than you might realize.  I wouldn't be averse to throwing a 
four-digit amount into the pot, especially if the idea was that member 
dues would pay me back relatively quickly.  Other people have much more 
expensive hobbies. ;-)

There's also the possibility that our colocation provider would sell us 
servers on an installment plan.  This is essentially what you are 
getting with dedicated server plans, except that there you don't get to 
own the server after a particular number of installments.

>Although I think it would be great if hcoop could buy a rack full of 
>servers within the next year, I don't think that this is necessary, or 
>even the best way to grow, at least financially.  We should be able to 
>move in a positive direction one server at a time for now.  We can start 
>by putting services on other boxes as we have resources to do so.  With 
>one 1850 I was thinking that we could do something like moving mail 
>(IMAP and sendmail) off of fyodor onto the new server.  Services like 
>IMAP shouldn't be on shared servers anyway, so this would be a healthy 
>move both for hcoop members who use email and those who don't rely on it 
>so much.
>  
>
I probably haven't been explicit enough about my thoughts on our current 
set-up.

I already said that we configured Abulafia in a time of ignorance, and 
so it isn't a good part of a solid hosting set-up.

We also have issues with fyodor.  We don't own it, so we can only use it 
at InterServer.  InterServer essentially tricked us into signing up with 
them with false advertising; whether or not they did so purposely 
doesn't change the consequences.  They offered an on-site backup service 
and then refused to sell it to us, despite having a page up for a few 
weeks saying that ordering would resume in a day.  We learned this after 
signing up and spending two months getting our rented server ready, so 
we decided to stick with them in the short term for pragmatic reasons, 
but the lack of off-machine back-up services is a serious concern.

As a result, I'd like to sever all relationships with InterServer as 
soon as possible.  An incremental scheme of moving some services to 
other servers wouldn't satisfy me so much; I'd know that all data kept 
on fyodor was in very serious danger of being lost, as it is now.  Like 
my current conception of Abulafia's role, I'd instead propose keeping 
fyodor running as a backup during the transition period and then getting 
rid of it.

>  The cost for a configuration like this could be offset by 
>opening up hcoop services to a new population.  Searching the web for a 
>minute I didn't find any co-operative email providers, and I think that 
>this would be a great thing for individuals interested in more 
>socially-conscious alternatives to gmail.  We could use IMAP, 
>squirrelmail, and a few small custom programs to open up email services 
>to non-technical users for a small fee.
>
We've been interested in a while in designing service offerings to 
appeal to non-technically-savvy people.  Simple web hosting without 
log-in access is another service in this niche.  I've been recommending 
that we wait until we have a solid infrastructure that competes with the 
best commercial offerings.  My main reason is that non-geeks will react 
more violently to small hitches, and those are certain to come up as we 
work towards our ideal set-up.  Also, I'm hoping to move everyone to our 
new set of servers shortly after they are ready, and non-geeks would 
probably find this migration process to be arduous instead of trivial if 
bothersome.

I have hopes that our next set-up (in its first incarnation, not after 
later additions of new servers) can meet the criteria needed here, the 
main ones being back-ups and redundancy.  A large data loss incident 
would certainly not help our image, and the more members at the time and 
the less technically savvy they are, the worse it would be.  This is why 
I want to create a complete redundant infrastructure from scratch.