[HCoop-Discuss] EnvironmentalPolicy

[ntk at hcoop.net]

This is why I'm not sure this discussion is productive.  All of our
members, I think, agree that "protecting the environment" is a Good Thing.
 But opinions are all over the place.  Josh, have you heard of RECs before
I suggested this idea, or done any in-depth research before you came to
the conclusion that they are feel-good psychological nothings that people
are wasting billions of dollars on?

As someone else wrote here, "I hate to be a jerk," but you are simply
wrong when you say RECs do "nothing" to help the environment.  They
directly fund the building and operation of renewable energy products
where they would otherwise be economically unviable, in the case of
NativeEnergy, among other projects, two currently operating wind turbines
in Souix reservations in the Dakotas, and future larger projects there. 
The fact is that every REC you buy increases investment in renewable
energy, and in the case of CoolWatts certificates is CERTIFIED to increase
the amount of renewable energy on the grid by its face value.

-ntk

P.S. Obviously there will never be a market for paying people to ride
their bikes (another straw man argument).  But there are analogies, like
employers subsidizing their employee's public transportation passes, which
have the same kind of direct impact in encouraging greener public versus
private transportation.


> If the cost is really only going to be only "between $0.05 and $0.15 per
member monthly" then I do not object.  However, this is silly; it's more
about serving our own emotional needs than it is about helping the
environment, building a sustainable energy economy, or repairing damage
that we cause.
>
> We would not be buying "clean" electricity, or electricity at all.  We
would be buying something called "renewable energy credits," which,
according to NativeEnergy's site, are "a commodity that consist of the
rights to claim the emissions reductions and other environmental
benefits
> of green power."  (I have added this definition on the wiki).  In other
words, we are not helping the environment; we are merely buying the
right
> to "claim" the emissions reductions that other purchasers of electricity
actually accomplished.  This is not a "right" in a legal or economic
sense, either; it's more of a moral/ethical right to claim that you are
doing a good thing.  It is purely psychological.
>
> I ride a bicycle to work every day.  As a result, I can claim that I am
helping the environment.  It hadn't occurred to me, until now, that I
could make a few bucks on the side by selling to others the right to
"claim" my emissions reductions: give me, say, $1 a month, and then you
and not I get to claim that you are doing the right thing.  But come on;
if a guilty automobile commuter took me up on this deal, the environment
doesn't actually benefit, because he's still driving a car and I'm still
riding a bike.  If anything, by alleviating the guilty commuter's sense
of
> guilt, I've made it less likely that he will ever change his
> environment-harming behavior.
>
> I don't think buying these "CoolWatts" in any way morally absolves us
from
> buying dirty power through our current provider.  This is really just an
elaborate charitable donation to a for-profit power company.  But it's a
small donation, and because other cooperative members seem to feel very
strongly in favor of this, I will not object.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Michael Olson <mwolson at hcoop.net>
> To: hcoop-discuss at hcoop.net
> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:40:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [HCoop-Discuss] EnvironmentalPolicy
>
>
> Nathan Kennedy <ntk at hcoop.net> writes:
>
>> First, there is the Rochedale Principle of social responsibility and
the basic moral principle of cleaning up after ourself.  Hosting is a
fairly clean business; the two biggest environmental costs are
>> hardware disposal and dirty electricity generation.
>>  From a less altruistic perspective, the tiny cost of going totally
>> green presents a great marketing opportunity.  We can use green-e and
NativeEnergy tags, join the EPA Green Energy Partnership, be listed in
green business directories, and just generally attract interest as not
only a unique cooperative providing great service at great value, but
wind-powered too.
>
> These are both fairly compelling reasons, and the cost isn't
> prohibitively high, so I support this.
>
> --
> Michael Olson -- FSF Associate Member #652 -- http://www.mwolson.org/
Interests: Lisp, text markup, protocols -- Jabber: mwolson_at_hcoop.net
>   /` |\ | | | Projects: Emacs, Muse, ERC, EMMS, Planner, ErBot, DVC
> |_] | \| |_| Reclaim your digital rights by eliminating DRM.
>       See http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm for details.
> _______________________________________________
> HCoop-Discuss mailing list
> HCoop-Discuss at hcoop.net
> http://hcoop.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hcoop-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> HCoop-Discuss mailing list
> HCoop-Discuss at hcoop.net
> http://hcoop.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hcoop-discuss
>