<html><head></head><body>Sounds reasonable to me. I would have preferred to be subbed automatically myself.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Clinton Ebadi <clinton@unknownlamer.org> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail"><br />Greetings,<br /><br />It came to my attention, after a new hcoop member's post was held for<br />approval to hcoop-discuss, that we have not been adding people by<br />default to these lists for ... oh, the last *six years*. Which probably<br />explains their pitifully low participation rate, especially since it<br />seems nowadays folks don't like clicking around our beloved portal to<br />find the "Preferences" page... (hell, even I had to sit there for a<br />minute to remember where you set list prefs).<br /><br />I vaguely recall there may have been a reason... a few folks complaining<br />about list traffic? But checking the subscriber list, it looks like<br />almost none of our members from the last few years have bothered<br />subscribing to any of the optional lists!<br /><br />So, my current thinking is that we should instead subscribe everyone by<br />default to -discuss and -help, leaving a note in<br /><a href="https://wiki.hcoop.net/MemberManual/GettingStarted/AccountCreated">https://wiki.hcoop.net/MemberManual/GettingStarted/AccountCreated</a> about<br />*un*subscribing after signing up if the member cares, rather than<br />subscribing... something about the relative worth of forgiveness and<br />permission.<br /><br />I like it for another reason -- any new member that complains about<br />receiving unwanted list traffic can be easily diverted back to<br />AccountCreated, whereas the new member who didn't suffer reading our<br />lengthy introductory material and now suffers in silence cannot. Also<br />something or other about community building or whatever the hep cats<br />call it.<br /><br />Another, possibly friendlier option: we can also just *invite* new<br />members to join the discussion and help lists, leaving them free to take<br />no action and also receive no mail while still making them aware the<br />lists exist. The major downside I see is that the invite is not very<br />descriptive -- the subject is "confirm $hash" where hash is a very long<br />hex string, and a test send to gmail ended up in their "special offers"<br />folder that they are using to spam gmail users now... (on the bright<br />side, it looks like they don't flag our announcements and whatnot as<br />spam any more! Go SPF records!) so, I think there's a big chance it<br />would be ignored. Forced subscription also sends out a notification, so<br />...<br /><br />Thoughts? I think it is a big enough change that I hope at least someone<br />has thoughts that disagree with mine (given that I sort-of disagree with<br />even myself, already)! Or agrees, whatever. Just as long as I am not<br />making decisions like this in an echo-chamber (I hear we're<br />democratically organized).<br /><br />If I see no serious opposition I am leaning toward going forward with<br />subscribing new members whenever we have our next member sign up, and<br />also sending a message to -announce reminding everyone to check their<br />list subscriptions because they could be missing out.<br /></pre></blockquote></div><br>
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