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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Haha as the person who's post was held
      up I vote for auto-subscription with a large "unsubscribe" button
      at the bottom of emails. It could also be a mix of certain lists
      are auto-subscribe and some are not.<br>
      <br>
      Sebastian Fernandez Giraldo.<br>
      <br>
      On 7/24/2013 12:08 PM, Lauren McNees wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAOzo_df1TYTA_OTqkkAiPvZ61x2E1s8KuCEPc_BUi99-Z3JFGw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">I vote for option A, subscribing everyone
        automatically and letting them unsubscribe themselves if they
        really want to. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!<br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Clinton Ebadi <span
            dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:clinton@unknownlamer.org" target="_blank">clinton@unknownlamer.org</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <br>
            Greetings,<br>
            <br>
            It came to my attention, after a new hcoop member's post was
            held for<br>
            approval to hcoop-discuss, that we have not been adding
            people by<br>
            default to these lists for ... oh, the last *six years*.
            Which probably<br>
            explains their pitifully low participation rate, especially
            since it<br>
            seems nowadays folks don't like clicking around our beloved
            portal to<br>
            find the "Preferences" page... (hell, even I had to sit
            there for a<br>
            minute to remember where you set list prefs).<br>
            <br>
            I vaguely recall there may have been a reason... a few folks
            complaining<br>
            about list traffic? But checking the subscriber list, it
            looks like<br>
            almost none of our members from the last few years have
            bothered<br>
            subscribing to any of the optional lists!<br>
            <br>
            So, my current thinking is that we should instead subscribe
            everyone by<br>
            default to -discuss and -help, leaving a note in<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://wiki.hcoop.net/MemberManual/GettingStarted/AccountCreated"
              target="_blank">https://wiki.hcoop.net/MemberManual/GettingStarted/AccountCreated</a>
            about<br>
            *un*subscribing after signing up if the member cares, rather
            than<br>
            subscribing... something about the relative worth of
            forgiveness and<br>
            permission.<br>
            <br>
            I like it for another reason -- any new member that
            complains about<br>
            receiving unwanted list traffic can be easily diverted back
            to<br>
            AccountCreated, whereas the new member who didn't suffer
            reading our<br>
            lengthy introductory material and now suffers in silence
            cannot. Also<br>
            something or other about community building or whatever the
            hep cats<br>
            call it.<br>
            <br>
            Another, possibly friendlier option: we can also just
            *invite* new<br>
            members to join the discussion and help lists, leaving them
            free to take<br>
            no action and also receive no mail while still making them
            aware the<br>
            lists exist. The major downside I see is that the invite is
            not very<br>
            descriptive -- the subject is "confirm $hash" where hash is
            a very long<br>
            hex string, and a test send to gmail ended up in their
            "special offers"<br>
            folder that they are using to spam gmail users now... (on
            the bright<br>
            side, it looks like they don't flag our announcements and
            whatnot as<br>
            spam any more! Go SPF records!) so, I think there's a big
            chance it<br>
            would be ignored. Forced subscription also sends out a
            notification, so<br>
            ...<br>
            <br>
            Thoughts? I think it is a big enough change that I hope at
            least someone<br>
            has thoughts that disagree with mine (given that I sort-of
            disagree with<br>
            even myself, already)! Or agrees, whatever. Just as long as
            I am not<br>
            making decisions like this in an echo-chamber (I hear we're<br>
            democratically organized).<br>
            <br>
            If I see no serious opposition I am leaning toward going
            forward with<br>
            subscribing new members whenever we have our next member
            sign up, and<br>
            also sending a message to -announce reminding everyone to
            check their<br>
            list subscriptions because they could be missing out.<br>
            <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
                --<br>
                "Karen loved animals. Unfortunately the cheetahs
                betrayed her trust,"<br>
                Libot said.<br>
              </font></span><br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            HCoop-Discuss mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:HCoop-Discuss@lists.hcoop.net">HCoop-Discuss@lists.hcoop.net</a><br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/hcoop-discuss"
              target="_blank">https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/hcoop-discuss</a><br>
          </blockquote>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
HCoop-Discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:HCoop-Discuss@lists.hcoop.net">HCoop-Discuss@lists.hcoop.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/hcoop-discuss">https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/hcoop-discuss</a></pre>
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      <p class="" avgcert""="" color="#000000" align="left">No virus
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        Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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        Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3209/6518 - Release Date:
        07/24/13</p>
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