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I also agree with Edward's arguments. I don't think Ira's argument for not using "now" holds water. Yes, the actual US withdrawal will depend on how strong the movement is, among other things, but this shouldn't change our demand. We want to rally people around the call to get out now. We're not trying to rally them around getting out sometime down the road, when opposition forces are stronger.<br><br><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:48:58 -0700<br>From: james.bic1000@gmail.com<br>To: antiwar@lists.hcoop.net<br>Subject: Re: [Oct. 17 Seattle] Real Change Ad, etc.<br><br>I agree with Helen and Edward. "U.S. Out of Afghanistan Now!" is a more appropriate slogan as it makes it clear that a phased withdrawal is unacceptable. I know that Ira was in no way suggesting that a phased withdrawal is acceptable, however those within and watching the march may not understand that. <br>
<br>James B.<br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Helen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:helen1913@mac.com">helen1913@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="padding-left:1ex">
I agree with E. It also mirrors the language of the half sheets we<br>
have been passing out.<br>
<br>
I would like to get it out fairly soon, so if anyone else feels like<br>
weighing in I'll just go forward with whatever seems to be the<br>
general consensus in a day or two.<br>
--Hn<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Sep 24, 2009, at 6:03 PM, <a href="mailto:iskra@riseup.net">iskra@riseup.net</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I think the suggested slogan change is a step in the wrong direction.<br>
><br>
> 1. I don't think Ira's first point comes across whatsoever. Ask<br>
> anyone<br>
> outside of the movement. And, even if it did, I think it would be<br>
> incorrect to try and make it the basis of an anti-war broad united<br>
> front.<br>
><br>
> 2. As for "now," I think it is good to underscore our opposition to<br>
> phony "phased withdrawal" schemes that liberal imperialists sometimes<br>
> float (although that is far from their current agenda in Afghanistan).<br>
> This becomes all the more important given the widely-held and<br>
> reality-defying view that Obama is going to "eventually" end the war.<br>
> (I have had many people "correct" me when I mentioned Obama's surge in<br>
> Afghanistan, as if I was just making it up or something. Of course<br>
> this<br>
> is despite his repeated election promises to escalate the Afghan war,<br>
> and the widespread reports of his follow-through in the mass<br>
> media.) I<br>
> am not aware of a better word to do this than "now."<br>
><br>
> Plus, I think the suggested change is unwieldy and stylistically odd.<br>
> No gain, all pain.<br>
><br>
> --Edward<br>
><br>
><br>
> ira jones wrote:<br>
>> It occurred to me that the slogan<br>
>><br>
>> US Out of Afghanistan Now!<br>
>><br>
>> could be improved by changing it to<br>
>><br>
>> US, Get Out of Afghanistan!<br>
>><br>
>> for two reasons. First, I think that the change better<br>
>> accentuates the<br>
>> concept that although we are live in the US, we are implacably<br>
>> opposed<br>
>> to the US government. Second, I don't like "now" as a way of<br>
>> accentuating militancy since WHEN (and if) the US gets out depends<br>
>> totally on the balance of forces, i.e., how desperate the US is to<br>
>> prevail there vs. how strong the movement here is (not very, frankly)<br>
>> and how strong the armed struggle is in Afghanistan.<br>
>><br>
>> This idea just popped into my head, so if it would be too<br>
>> disruptive to<br>
>> change the main slogan, that's cool.<br>
>><br>
>> Other subjects:<br>
>><br>
>> 1) I'll definitely be going in to hear Dahr Jamail on Sunday<br>
>> ($15/ticket, fundraiser for Coffee Strong) at Univ. Temple United<br>
>> Methodist Church (1415 NE 43rd, Seattle) and I intend to leaflet<br>
>> it a bunch.<br>
>><br>
>> 2) For what it's worth, Malalai Joya, the Afghani "MP" will be in<br>
>> Seattle on Nov 11.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Helen <<a href="mailto:helen1913@mac.com">helen1913@mac.com</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:helen1913@mac.com">helen1913@mac.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I spoke to the editor of Real Change and he said I should send<br>
>> an ad<br>
>> to the calendar editor that says who, what, why, where, and when.<br>
>> They may (there is discretion) print it the week or ten days<br>
>> before<br>
>> the event in their calendar, for free. They usually print an<br>
>> event<br>
>> ad only once, but you can purchase a classified ad (another<br>
>> place in<br>
>> the paper?) for about $30-40.<br>
>><br>
>> For the calendar listing, I propose the following:<br>
>><br>
>> US Out of Afghanistan Now! Demonstrate Saturday, October 17,<br>
>> at 1p.m..<br>
>> March begins at Seattle Central Community College and ends at<br>
>> Westlake.<br>
>> Sponsored by October 17 Antiwar Mobilization and endorsed by<br>
>> numerous<br>
>> anti-war groups and individuals.<br>
>> ___________<br>
>><br>
>> This is short because I don't believe the calendar allows that<br>
>> much<br>
>> detail. Feel free to make suggestions.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --Hn<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> antiwar mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:antiwar@lists.hcoop.net">antiwar@lists.hcoop.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:antiwar@lists.hcoop.net">antiwar@lists.hcoop.net</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/antiwar">https://lists.hcoop.net/listinfo/antiwar</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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>> ---<br>
>><br>
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