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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Frank –</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Since we
didn’t set anything in stone, it is hard to understand why you’re angry. The four of us didn’t consense on a
shorter route, and we didn’t consense on ending in Pioneer Square. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">After
walking most of the route (stopping on First), we all felt that it was a pretty
rigorous route, and that rather than going all the way to Westlake, one way to
shorten it would be to end in Pioneer Square. What we agreed to was that if we do go all the way to Jackson,
and especially if we march up to 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">, the march could end at
Pioneer Square, and we agreed that there were some advantages to that
option. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">However,
our minds were not primarily on the length of the march, but on numerous other
factors. We tried to give an
indication of that by saying that those of us who went out that night would
send comments on the route options, but we fell down on doing that. Some particular points that the four of
us discussed while we were scouting:</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">1) We
walked from SCCC along Pike to 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">, and along 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">
roughly to the Juvenile Hall.
Along Pike and the first part of 12th, there are several open-air cafes,
but all of them are pretty upscale.
There are a few condo-type residences, and again they’re pretty
upscale. The whole chunk of Pike
between Broadway and 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">, and around the corner onto 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">
also, has been real gentrified since the last time I really looked at what was
there. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">2) We
discussed in depth whether there would be more people around along SU at the
time of the march, but when we were there the other day that side of campus was
deserted. There are several shops
that are designed for the student population there, and these may be populated
on a Saturday, which would be good.
And of course, school will be in session then, so it is likely to be
more populous than the other night.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">3) After
passing SU by a few blocks, we cut up from 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> to Broadway, to get
a view of what was there. Marching on 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> all the way essentially
to Jackson as we originally discussed would largely bypass the housing project
between Harborview and Yessler. It
would catch one edge of it but not much more.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">4) We didn’t
come to an agreement on the choice between 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> and Broadway, but we
did agree that cutting through more of Yessler Terrace is important. Going from memory, I think that meant
cutting up Alder from 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">, if we take that route, but it doesn’t
matter much which of those streets we take. We discussed that going up Cherry
to Broadway was an option also.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">5) We all
agreed that cutting west of Broadway on the jog that Anton pointed out in his
email was a really good thing, because it would take us through more of the
projects. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">6) That jog
would leave us at Yessler a couple of blocks west of Broadway. From there, we
debated whether to go right, down Yessler or left, to Jackson. Going down Yessler to First is the
shorter of the two options, and we agreed that if we took that option, we would
certainly want to end at Westlake.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">The other
alternative of going down Jackson means turning left at Yessler, going to
Boren, to 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">, to Jackson, and is a significant addition to the
route. It has some significant
advantages over the Yessler option, in that it travels through more of the
Yessler Terrace projects, through little Saigon, and through a significant
chunk of the ID. I think we all
agreed that these were important advantages. The Yessler route misses all of little Saigon, and most of
the ID.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">7) In the
ID, we discussed the option of a one-block detour through Hing Hay (sp?) park
for a speech or two. From there,
we’d travel down past the south end of the bus tunnel, and down to First. However, Jackson to First beyond the
bus tunnel isn’t going to be great for foot traffic. Anton has since reported that there will be a game, but not
til the evening. And First doesn’t
get a lot of non-game foot-traffic until you get a few blocks further north
(though it does have good foot traffic a few blocks south of Yessler).</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">8) If we did
not go all the way to Westlake, our preferred ending point would not be
Occidental Park, but at the triangular park on First where the pergola is. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">9) We all
agreed that the route up First, and especially the march past the market were
big advantages to going all the way to Westlake. Anton and I talked about even going beyond Westlake on
First, so we could run alongside the market for a couple more blocks, and then
looping back to Westlake.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">The main
reason we considered ending sooner than Westlake was that we wanted to be able
to take a few detours that would lengthen the march. Twelfth is one, into the projects to the west of Broadway is
another, Hing Hay park is a third, and we might have talked about a few others
as well.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">The
longest option is:</span><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">SCCC
--> Pike --> 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> --> Cherry --> Broadway --> through
Yessler Terrace --> Yessler --> Boren --> 12</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> -->
Jackson --> Hing Hay --> Jackson --> 1</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">st</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> --> Stewart
--> 4</span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">th</span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> --> Westlake.
</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">That one
is not outlined in any of the maps that I made and Helen sent out. We agreed that that one was too long,
but I imagine that some of us could be convinced otherwise. But at this point, I am not entirely
convinced by your arguments. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">We need
to resolve this soon so we can start the permit process. One proposal is that anyone who can meets
at SCCC on Thursday or Friday evening, at 6 or 6:30, with flyers in hand, and we walk the route again. Can you
make it either of those times, Frank?
What about other comrades?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">I cannot
do it on Friday, but I can on Thursday.
If we decide to do it Thursday, probably the communication should be by
phone.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Comrades,</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">I
don’t understand what is said on the maps, i.e., how is the route ending at
Westlake only 2.5 miles, and the one ending at Pioneer Square 3.0 miles? Then
you have an alternative route to Pioneer Square that’s </span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">longer</span></i></span><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">, but it’s listed as only 2.6 miles!</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">So
you must mean that the route ending at Westlake is 3.0 miles, which I think is
just right---maybe 1 hour 45 minutes at demonstration pace. Nothing. We say
that we want to use demonstrations take our anti-war politics to the people,
and this does it.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Some
other points:</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">I
think that ending at Westlake is better because it seems to be a little more of
a public place than Pioneer Square. Moreover, it allows us to march by the
crowded Market entrance, etc. Also, a lot of people will hike back up the hill to
Broadway after the event is over, and this will give us the opportunity to walk
with them. In fact, I was thinking that it would be good to give a call for
people to march back up the hill together during the ending rally.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Besides
Seattle May Days and the DNC, I could add more demonstrations that have been
much longer than the one we all generally agreed on, i.e., </span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">three</span></i></span><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> marches from the U.W. all the way
downtown in 1970, or a MLK Day march that went all the way from Garfield High
to Othello, or others. And every one of these marches was of thousands. But you
write that: “We will have less people participating in the march if it is
clearly too long,â€</span></span><span style="font-family: 新細明體; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> when this is not </span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">clear</span></i></span><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> at all!</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Longer
marches (and this one is really not that long) are a little more dramatic and
memorable, and we want this to be a memorable event. Further, I’ve told some
people that we wanted this to be a demonstration that was short on
speech-making and long on marching, and had agreement that it should be. And if
we continue our political mobilization I don’t think we need worry about
turning out enough people to fill the street. Anger against Obama increases by
the day, and we work to increase this anger. A three-mile anti-war
demonstration is just the beginning.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Since
four people have now consensed against our original plan, I’ll add one last
thing: How many times have we heard the cry to “keep marching!†sent up
when the usual coalition leaders stopped marches in order to have an hour of
reformist speeches? Maybe it’s because I’m older, but I’ve heard it a
lot.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Sorry
to go on and on, but I just don’t get this objection…can’t fathom it, and
it makes me angry. But I’m sure we’ll work it out.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">Frank</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">I don't
agree that the original proposed route is too long. For example, it's about </span><u><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">half</span></u><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">
the length of the biggest march in Denver, and much shorter than the May Day
marches from St. Mary's, downtown, and on to Seattle Center. More, when you're
walking in a crowd, shouting slogans and chants, etc., time flies by in comparison
to when you're walking alone.—Fk</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">-----
Original Message -----
</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10pt; ">From: Helen
To: antiwar@lists.hcoop.net
Sent: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 05:44:54 +0000
(UTC)
Subject: Re: [Oct. 17 Seattle] Fwd: Import your contacts and old
email
Alex, Anton, Edwd and I walked variations of the proposed route
tonight.
We concluded that SCCC via 12th or Broadway to Jackson, to First, and
up Pine to Westlake is too far.
We will have less people participating in the
march if it is clearly
too long. People would likely decide to be there at the
beginning
and/or the end and the actual number marching would be lower than we
want, possibly lower than we need to go into the street.
We can of course
discuss this further, but this was the general
consensus amongst of the four
of us.
Here are proposed routes. (Folks will argue pro and con in
subsequent
emails.)</span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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